Vegan dog food

Shen2
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Vegan dog food

Post by Shen2 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:09 am

I would like to offer brief information on feeding your dog a vegan diet. A fantastic place to begin with and get helpful support is veggiepets.com You can ask for advice and buy dog food, treats and supplements. The supplements I use are vegedog powder, the Missing Link Joint Health formula, Prozyme enzyme food supplement for cats and dogs, cranberry tablets and Plaque Off. I also add cold pressed coconut and olive oil and Engivita yeast flakes. I tend to cook my dogs vegan food for 4 days a week and give kibble for 3 days for variety. But if you want a good dog food brand, I highly recommend Benevo. Vegedog powder is only to be used in home made food.
The easiest homemade dog food I can suggest is if you buy a packet of each of brown rice, quinoa, green lentils, French lentils, red lentils and mix them in a food tub. You take out how much you require and soak for 20 mins before rinsing, bringing to the boil, then simmer for 20 mins. I will always add a small handful of veggies that are not toxic to dogs like broccoli, carrots or sweet potato. At the end of cooking I will throw in 2 cans of beans. A big pot of this can be made and frozen into portions. Once defrosted add the supplements according to your dogs weight. There are many varied recipes out there, but I prefer my recipe as it is very nutritious and very easy to make.

pits
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by pits » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:20 pm

Thanks for the tips! On this topic, a homemade vegan treat/chew for dogs that I've seen but not tried yet is sweet potato chews, there's a how to tutorial on this page: http://www.17apart.com/2012/02/how-to-m ... -chew.html

There's several other homemade vegan dog treat recipes on this page too :D http://veganfoodlover.com/7-homemade-vegan-dog-treats/

DorsetSarah
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by DorsetSarah » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:46 pm

How great to see other people feeding their dogs vegan dog food! I have been using Benevo for over a year now, and my 2 Staffies love it! I also give them Rumble Strips dog treats, as well as apple, cabbage, carrot, banana etc. It's great to hear about other people's experiences. Thanks!

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Wander Woman
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by Wander Woman » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:03 pm

Hi Shen2, pits and DorsetSarah,

Why do you feed your dogs a vegan diet?

Dogs are scientifically ordered as carnivores in the animal kingdom, not herbivores/vegans. While it is true that modern, domesticated dogs are scavengers and many live on a more omnivorous diet today than their wolf ancestors did, you can see the way dogs have evolved to eat meat in their physiology. Their teeth and their digestive systems all point to an animal that has evolved to get its nutritional requirements primarily from meat. Here is an article that describes the science behind this: http://www.whyanimalsdothething.com/pos ... n-pet-food

I’m not writing this comment to be a cyber-bully. I’m writing it because I sincerely disagree with feeding dogs a pure vegan diet and I think it’s very important to present an opposing view here. I believe that a vegan diet does not provide the dog with the nutrients necessary for it to thrive. A dog can probably survive, because one can supplement its diet with the necessary vitamins, but why do that? Why not just feed a dog a species/biologically-appropriate diet as much as one is able?

Here’s another perspective, written by vets. They are even rethinking their previous position that dogs are more omnivorous than carnivorous:
http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-expert ... earch-says

Here’s another point of view from a holistic vet:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/is ... -omnivore/

The science that says a dog has evolved to derive at least some of its balanced diet from meat-based protein is very compelling. A range of scientists seem to agree on this.

I understand that it may be difficult for some vegetarians and vegans to feed their dogs a biologically appropriate diet. I was a vegetarian for much of my adult life. I am still squeamish about some of the food I feed my dogs. But I want them to have the best life they can nutritionally, as well as mentally and physically. I do not want to impose my own ethics on an animal that has not evolved to eat the diet I myself can do well on – because human have evolved to be omnivorous, not carnivorous. Our dogs have no choice in what we feed them. They get what they’re given. That’s a part of the ethics of feeding a species/biologically appropriate diet for me too. I don’t want to deny them the opportunity to eat the type of foods they have evolved to eat.

There’s no denying that everyone on this forum loves their dogs. At least I hope that’s the case! And there’s no denying that dogs like a veggie snack – mine are carrot and pea lovers! But I think there is also no denying the science behind an appropriate canine diet. And that science says that meat should be at least part of a dog’s healthy diet.
"The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" - Jeremy Bentham

sweetpea
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by sweetpea » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:29 pm

DorsetSarah wrote:How great to see other people feeding their dogs vegan dog food! I have been using Benevo for over a year now, and my 2 Staffies love it! I also give them Rumble Strips dog treats, as well as apple, cabbage, carrot, banana etc. It's great to hear about other people's experiences. Thanks!
My dogs love apple but make sure all the pips are removed as they are toxic and contain cynanide....

sweetpea
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by sweetpea » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:34 pm

I am a vegetarian and feed my dogs raw meat ....they get a varied diet too with oats, veggies etc....i have read varying to for and against vegan diets for dogs ...some vets say that dogs can thrive on one as long as its a varied diet with proteins that replace the meat protein ....i too worry about a total vegan diet for dogs but must admit i have never looked into it ....alot of vets dont agree with the raw diet ...i think as long as you have done your research and your dog is happy and healthy with whatever diet .....on the raw diet my dogs have small firm non smelly poos .....what is a vegans dog poo like ....(just out of interest ) :thanks.gif: interesting thread love4.gif

pits
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by pits » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:17 pm

It is a tricky topic and a lot of people are understandably passionate about wanting the best for their dogs, and for other dogs in general, we all love dogs and want the best for them. So there's a lot of varying opinions on the subject. These two articles from a doctor and a veterinarian are quite interesting too: http://web-dvm.net/dogs-are-omnivores-a ... d-as-such/
http://www.petfoodnutrition.com/carnivo ... -omnivore/

Like what sweetpea said, ultimately its about a dog getting in all of the necessary nutrients to keep him healthy and happy, whatever diet is chosen, everyone should do their research and make sure that their dog is getting in enough of the right things. :)

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Wander Woman
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by Wander Woman » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:50 pm

I actually found the second article (the Who Cares one) posted in pits’ response above to be unprofessional and a bit anti-science. Especially the misleading part that can lead people to believe it’s okay to feed their cats on a vegetarian diet. Cats really are obligate carnivores.

I’m not really arguing that modern, domesticated dogs are pure carnivores. Although some raw feeders on this forum might do so. I think the science better supports that dogs, although classed as carnivores, and descended from pure/obligate carnivores, have evolved to thrive (not just survive) on an more omnivorous diet.

It matters because science matters. Science helps us learn about our world and also helps us to make well-informed decisions. I find the recent trend toward demonizing and devaluing science quite disturbing. I agree that people should do their research. But what ‘research’ does one then choose to go with? There is a lot of junk disguised as ‘information’ on the internet. Some just plain wrong and some so wrong that it’s dangerous. And a lot of it will simply validate someone’s preconceived beliefs. It’s hard to change minds. Science at least insists on evidence and facts – not feelings and ethics.

Of course, for some, ethics are important too. I don’t consider my views terribly extreme. I consider a belief that dogs are vegans extreme and unscientific. At the same time, I believe that an opposite view can be extreme too. I was once told in another forum that I shouldn’t own carnivorous pets (dogs, cats, ferrets, etc.) because I was a vegetarian. Now that’s extreme! There was no science behind that belief. Just pure feeling. Never mind that I have never insisted that my dogs follow a vegetarian diet simply because I chose to do so. I was still attacked in what I thought to be a very bizarre way.

My Lurcher killed a rat today. He didn’t do it out of spite. To think that would be to anthropomorphize him and impose my own ethics upon his behaviour. He did it because he is a predator and it’s in his blood to kill small animals. The incident made me shudder, but I can’t exactly punish him for doing what is simply in his nature. He is built to be a speedy killing machine, not a grazing animal. So, although I don’t feed him rats (I think most on this forum would agree that would be disgusting!) I do include a lot of meat in his diet, because that is what he has evolved to eat. He gets some veg too, but I have to say, he is not a big fan. lol.gif
"The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" - Jeremy Bentham

MandaTK
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by MandaTK » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:36 am

100% agree with your Wander Woman! Dogs are meat eaters and that's a fact!

RosC
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by RosC » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:33 pm

Having been a vegan myself for most of my life I am thrilled that these days it has become very popular to be a vegan and I salute everyone who chooses this way of life :cool.gif:
Personally, I have never tried to make any of my pets vegan as I think it is better for them to have a more varied diet (including meat / poultry I'm afraid) and I would not want to be responsible for them developing problems later on due to me feeding a restrictive diet. Even my children were brought up vegetarian rather than vegan.
I have chosen to be vegan, am very healthy, had 2 healthy pregnancies and do not ever take any supplements so I know this diet is healthy if done right but would not impose this on my dog (as much as I would like to!).
p.s. Did try to convert hubbie many years ago but that didn't work either lol.gif

Shen2
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by Shen2 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:30 am

I spent a long time educating myself about feeding a dog a vegan diet. My first dog was on the raw prey diet and it made her sick. Her breath stank, her poops stank and she devoloped skin infections. If done correctly, your dog will flourish. Mine have. Soft, glossy coat, more energy, no more bad breath or foul smelling poo, great teeth. Becoming educated is the most important support you can give your dog if you want to switch to a vegan diet. Dont forget that vets get financial benefits for selling the brands of dog food you see displayed in their waiting area. They also have very limited training about dog nutrition. When reading reports, case studies, research and any statistics you should check for bias, check who is funding this, check why it has been published and question who the target audience is.
On a much more happier note:
A vegan dog lived to 27 years http://www.care2.com/greenliving/vegeta ... years.html
My partner and my two rescue dogs are vegan. We choose not to contribute to the suffering, violation, torture and murder of other sentient beings. Pigs are as intelligent as a 3 year old, for example. I wanted to show dog owners that there is another way. You save one life but feed countless others to that one life you saved? It does not make sense to us. Cats can be vegan, BUT they need taurine and this IS available in vegan form from veggie pets and other vegan pet food suppliers. Your choice what you feed. There are options. Our choice to not contribute to a cruel world. Our decision to show others that there is another way. If this angers/upsets you. Why?
For inspiration: PETA. The Vegan Society. The London Vegan Meetup (6,602 members and counting).

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Wander Woman
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Re: VEGAN dog food

Post by Wander Woman » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:11 pm

1. Dogs are not herbivores/vegans. There is no science to support that they are. If you choose to feed your dog a vegan diet, you to do it because of your own sensibilities, not because they have evolved to eat that kind of diet.

2. The claim that cats can survive on a vegan diet is dangerous misinformation. Cats are obligate carnivores. Cats die when subjected to a vegan diet.

3. There are plenty of people who will argue with you about feeding their dogs a raw diet. I do not agree that a raw diet will suit every owner or every dog, however plenty of dogs do very well on a raw diet without any bad breath or stinky poo or skin issues. Usually the opposite is the case.

4. Of course vets benefit financially from the food they sell in their practices. They are running a business. This ‘argument’ has become pernicious on the internet. It is all part of the recent, bizarre demonization of vets and science. The notion that I shouldn’t take a vet’s advice because they sell pet food that may not be to my personal standards does not make sense. Vets save our pets’ lives every day using the biological, scientific knowledge that they studied many years to achieve. They apply that science in their practices every day. There has been some strange internet drive recently to discredit vets. Vets actually do study pet nutrition in school. True, they have a lot of other stuff to study to qualify to practice initially, so most probably do not specialize in nutrition upon qualification. However, many vets do specialize in pet nutrition. That expertise will be based upon science.

5. A discussion based around processed and/or low quality food is completely different to this thread. I absolutely agree that there is a lot of low quality dog food out there. As far as supplements go – supplements are processed. And not all supplements are safe. Many are not even proven to be scientifically effective. Some can even be dangerous. Supplements should be more highly regulated – just like medicines.

6. The article you linked is biased. It is clearly written to convince people that a vegetarian or vegan diet is a better one for humans. They are using the longevity of one dog to support their argument. They had to admit, however, that a dog’s anatomy proves that it has not evolved to be a herbivore.

7. I have absolutely no issue with you and your partner being vegans. Your dogs are not vegan. You are forcing them to be vegans because they have no choice in the matter. I think that is unethical because a vegan diet is not species appropriate for dogs.

8. I probably agree with many of your sensibilities regarding factory farming, etc. I lived a vegetarian lifestyle for many, many years. So I am not uneducated about vegetarian/vegan diets and ethics. This discussion is off-topic, however, from dogs eating a vegan diet. Further, I am familiar with peta. I (and many others) consider them an extreme group.

9. I am not angry/upset that you and your partner are vegans. I am pointing out that feeding animals who have no choice in the matter a biologically inappropriate diet is unethical. I consider your position extremist – and the position that cats can be herbivores/vegans is actually dangerous. I consider the demonization of science to be dangerous. I am not a bad guy here, so please do not try to make me out to be one by painting me as ‘angry’.

10. I find the position you’re taking to be somewhat illogical. You say that as a vegan, you do not want to take part in the violation of sentient beings. Isn’t denying a dog the right to a biologically appropriate diet a violation of that dog’s very evolution and being?

If you choose to post extreme views, and then try to convince others of those extreme views, please expect to be challenged.
"The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" - Jeremy Bentham

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